Today in Writer’s Seminar II, we made a list of all the things to consider when making an argument. One of the things on the list was implications. I use this word a lot when I talk about critical thinking: “what are the implications of the issue you are arguing? What does it mean?”

In the case of our list, however, we noted that the author of the argument needs to consider the implications if the argument was effective, proven true. I found this video tonight that asked these questions about abortion:

“Should abortion be illegal?”
“If so, what should the punishment be?”

The responses are awfully interesting.


14 thoughts on “Implications

  1. Stephen raulli says:

    Some of the responses really made the citation of religion irrelevant in this case. People always use the Bible, and notice how many people said “It’s between her and God.” True–unless her God is not your God. By making abortion illegal because, “It is murder in God’s eyes, ” stomps on the freedom of religion. Atheists, Jewish, Buddhists–none of them can have a free choice because of the beliefs of the majority.

    With any human rights issue, the majority should not vote on the minority. That’s why religion needs to be taken out of the equation. It somewhat parallels gay marriage–people with heterosexual privilege vote if gay people can get married or not. The LGBTQ votes as well, but they’re the minority. If it were a vote, say, if a black person could get married, I bet there would not be any repealing. It’s interesting that issues involving sexuality and gender will be up on the debate block for years and just sit there. The Matthew Shepard Act wasn’t passed until ten years after it was proposed. So if you were murdered because you had a disability, then it wasn’t a hate crime until this past year.

    It seems the “pro-lifers” only consider one life–the baby’s life. (I’m not going to open the debate if it is or is not, in fact, a living human at that point. I’m stating the belief of “pro-life.”). There is also the woman’s life–the rest of her life she will live after the abortion. Making a law to illegalize abortion may be murder in some people’s eyes, but it’s also a law that prohibits women from having any control over their bodies. it’s veiled oppression to take the choice away. But we hide behind a 10-foot tall poster of an aborted fetus to make our argument.

    Terminology has to be considered and clarified to both sides of an argument. By looking at the video, it seems few know what “illegal” means. If you break the law, you are punished. If I rob a store I will go to jail. So if abortion is illegal, and a woman has an abortion, then she should be punished. But when people are actually presented with this scenario they begin back-pedaling; it seems the woman’s conscience would be punishment enough. However, if they want to make it illegal, they have to realize it has now become a legal issue, not just a moral one.

    Also, remember what pro-choice means. i’m pro-choice. I’m not pro-abortion. I have male privilege so will never understand the choice a woman has to make in regards to a pregnancy. I will never feel that bond. I can lend as much support as I can, but at the end of the day it’s not my choice.

    Notice I said choice–not, “It’s not my abortion.” Pro-choice is not pro-abortion. That’s what people seem confused about–that any pro-choice person can thinks it’s as simple as scheduling an abortion for 2pm–just enough time to get back home for their TV show and make dinner. People who are pro-choice want to give women a choice. Isn’t that what feminism is about–granting the woman a choice? The government cannot control a woman’s body.

    At the end of the day, make sure you understand BOTH sides of the argument, their reasoning, and the results before making a decision. In some people’s opinion, it’s a matter of life and death.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Abortion should absolutely be legal. It is a choice to have sex, it is also a choice to have a child. It should be a choice to keep it or not. Now if it were illegal there should defiantly be some exceptions. take for example a girl who gets raped and becomes pregnant with the assailants child. No one in there right mind would want to give birth to the child of the person that raped them. Now if the child is born it will be undoubtedly loved but it should be the choice of the mother to abort the unwanted child. And how would the guilty aborters be punished? would it be a fine? or would they be sent to jail? haha This is absurd. There is no way that this law would work well. What would be next in the line of dumb laws? maybe a law saying you can have sex with certain people? very unlikely.

  3. Stephen raulli says:

    “No one in there right mind would want to give birth to the child of the person that raped them.”

    That’s an outrageous thing to say. You’d be surprised by parent’s love.

  4. Ali Schreiber says:

    The topic of abortion is a serious issue in our society. For the sake of not upsetting anyone on this blog, I am going to leave my personal opinion on this topic a secret, however I will view this video from a critical perspective. As I was watching this video I could already foreshadow every anti-abortionists’ response to what should be done if a woman were to have an illegal abortion as far as their consequence. After seeing the first response from the woman and how she hadn’t thought about that, I knew that was going to be everyone else’s response as well or something along the lines that they were punished enough by God and that there is no need for them to go to jail. The point of this video is to make the anti-abortionist look a little bit on the stupid side without directly stating that. The way the video is arranged is very clever. One can see that the person who is video taping and asking to the questions is for abortions being legal. He does not once express his opinion, however he asks questions and gets the evidence from the pro-life people themselves. This is definitely a persuasive video for this man’s audience to be swayed more towards the pro-choice side.

  5. Shane Samuel says:

    I do not know how I stand on abortion. On one hand I believe that a woman should not be told what she can and cannot do with her body but on the other hand I know there are some women who take advantage of the abortion option. For example, I knew a girl who had an abortion after getting pregnant by a guy she was hooking up with; one would have thought she learned her lesson but she did not. She kept on having unprotected sex with guys and whenever she got pregnant–abortion time. I believe that there should be some sort of law that will allow a woman to have an abortion if she wishes, but at the same time prevents the continuous use of the abortion option, by foolish women/girls.

    • Graham Pastor says:

      “I believe that there should be some sort of law that will allow a woman to have an abortion if she wishes, but at the same time prevents the continuous use of the abortion option, by foolish women/girls.”

      I’m not quite sure I follow this logic. There would just be an arbitrary number of abortions one would be allowed and then they would be forced to have a child that they clearly aren’t ready for? Obviously, if a women is having multiple abortions she needs help, but is forcing her to have a child (from an unwanted pregnancy) really the solution? It hardly seems fair to the child or the parents.

      On a different note, I think it is interesting to see how flustered some people get when their beliefs are questioned. It reminded me of Socrates. He made these people realize how much they don’t know by just asking questions. It really shows that people don’t always think about what they are saying. They have just been repeating this idea for so long that it just becomes ingrained in them that they are right, regardless of anything else (like logic).

  6. Maggie Bernay says:

    Abortion is a sensitive issue for most Americans in the United States. I was raised Catholic and grew up being told that abortion is wrong. However after taking courses while different opinions about abortion were discussed, I began to realize that there is a lot more to abortion than right and wrong. While I still am not sure where I stand on the abortion issue and do not entirely agree or disagree with this argument, I do however believe that is a very persuasive argument. While you do not hear the video taper’s opinion, one can certainly understand the point he is trying to make by the evidence he is providing. Whether one disagrees or agrees, one thing that cannot be argued is the video taper’s ability to make the anti-abortionists look silly and therefore taking away their credibility.

  7. Stephanie Haddad says:

    I’ve never been an advocate for abortion, but I, by no means, think it should be illegal. This video brings up a great point in that people are so set on their beliefs that they don’t even know the meaning of what they want. To make something illegal, there must be a punishment. So if they really want abortion to be illegal, why don’t we throw those women in jail? Abortion in itself is such a sensitive topic that people never even think about types of punishments for those women.

    Personally, I don’t have anything against people that have abortions. Some people are just not ready to bear a child into this world. People unfortunately make a lot of mistakes, and I think those mistakes need to be taken into perspective. In any case, abortion is a serious topic and religious beliefs are just not going to convince people that this act is wrong. The man video taping these anti-abortionists knows that they lack credibility, so he really pushes there buttons by asking them about types of punishment if this were to be an illegal act.

  8. Jena Ko says:

    I am not going to debate whether or not abortion could be illegal or not because it is all based on ones own ethical standing. But I will comment on the people who appeared on the youtube clip and I guess people in general. I’ve notice that many of the people who choose one side, do not really know why abortion should be illegal or legal. I think people choose based on their gut intuition full of morals they were taught all their lives. All the people on the clip said that abortion should be illegal but they do not actually understand themselves how different it is killing a fetus vs killing a older, out of the womb human being, when they say that abortions are killings. It’s so contradictory how they said abortion should be illegal but they don’t know if the female should be sentenced to jail, fined, etc. People need to step aside and really think clearly about why abortion should be legal or illegal keeping in mind of the actual legal system of our society. I believe that many get caught in between religion and the law, which makes it harder for them to actually argue why it should be illegal. Many of the people believe that it should be illegal and that their punishment should be bestowed upon themselves and god, but if someone commited an illegal act such as kill the president of USA, should they just be left alone to sorrow by themselves and god? Those who are on the debate of making abortions illegal or legal need to define what illegal and legal means first.

  9. acar2284 says:

    This is a very interesting video. It’s fascinating to observe the extent to which people’s beliefs can be pushed. It was most amazing to me to discover how short-sighted the mindsets of those pro-life activists were. It’s obvious that they feel morally compelled to stand up against what they see as murder, but at the same time, they fail to acknowledge any sanction that should legally accompany such a crime.

    I agree that “implications” are precisely what should be considered regarding this issue. It seems that the demonstrators in the video were so deeply focused on projecting their ideals onto others, that they didn’t fully develop their objective. It’s interesting that they were unsure of exactly what legal consequences they wanted to bring about in society.

    It was also interesting that the protestors didn’t immediately have an answer for what they feel that an appropriate penalty for an illegal abortion should be. I mean, if abortions are murder, then why shouldn’t women who break the law to obtain them go to jail for life, just as a legally recognized murderer would? It was fascinating that the people who were questioned actually second-guessed this. It is an automatic response that people who commit homicide should go to jail, but when asked if the same punishment should apply to abortion, all of these candidates had to think twice. There appear to be some gaps in this logic.

    Now I’m really wondering, what should happen to women who get illegal abortions?

  10. Ben Ayres says:

    I’m not sure whether i support abortion or whether i do not, but the question that the man here brings up is thought-provoking. It is very interesting listening to these people that believe abortion should be illegal, however have not thought of a sufficient penalty or a penalty at all. I do remember an older women saying that it should be illegal however when asked if there should be a punishment she stated that there should not be any penalty saying that she would have a punishment from God. Listening to this woman kind of got me a little rattled and upset with her. She said that abortion is taking a life and is murder, however no penalty for murder? I dont know if there should be a penalty for abortion or not, but when someone makes a case saying that it should be illegal and then say there should be no punishment, 1, what the hell is the point and 2, i would think that is an ignorant thing to say. I dont have much of an opinion on abortion but i dont think this is a valid thing to say at all.

  11. Sean Harrison says:

    Just the other day i had to write a paper in phlosophy dealing with the justification of a case where a man was killed in order to save his other friends. The issue of abortion was part of my argument that the killing was wrong because its completely wrong to take the life of an innocent person. However, my views on this topic still have shades of gray. I dont really know how to take on this topic because some situations still seem like its the right thing to do and others it doesnt. But the whole thought that if abortion is killing someone then it cant be right. I couldnt just take the life of someone because of my own mistake. Murder crimes just make me cringe because its awful and happens way too often in our society. This issue is so debatable so i totally understand how people dont know what the punishment should actually be.

  12. Wes Traub says:

    *First of all, I’m not going to argue whether abortion is morally right or not. A public blog is not the right place to do that. I would just like to comment on the respondents in the video….

    Come on people, what ever happened to separation of Church and State? The respondents in this video were applying concepts of their own religion onto others. I am incredibly against this. Example: when the older women said “their punishment is between them and God.” Um…. last time I checked, there was legal consequences for killing someone. And the people in this video DID say that abortion was killing. I found it hilarious when the reporter asked the younger woman if she was against the death penalty or not, RIGHT after she declared abortion was killing, and RIGHT after she declared people who get abortions shouldn’t do jail time. Contradiction city. Get your facts straight people. I’m all for free speech, but don’t assume everyone shares your same religious views.

  13. Gabby Mylod says:

    It was really surprising to see the trend in this video. What are the chances that every single one of these anti-abortion demonstrators has no idea what the punishment should be for women who have illegal abortions? This is something that makes me crazy about some people. If you feel so incredibly strongly about a certain issue, you MUST know why you feel that way. This is why when people tell me their opinion on something and they don’t why they feel that way I can’t even take them seriously and it makes me so annoyed. I am someone who has extremely strong beliefs and opinions and I know exactly why I feel the way I feel about these things. The way I look at it is, if you’re going to disagree with me, you better know why.

    The fact that these people have NO idea what the punishment should be for women who have illegal abortions and the fact that many of them don’t even think there should be one shows that these people shouldn’t be looking to make abortion illegal! These people aren’t in it to get women who get abortions into to trouble, they’re trying to prove that they don’t like the idea of an abortion and they want to force everyone to agree with them. If they don’t agree with abortion, they should be trying to dissuade people from getting one and telling people why they don’t think it’s right.
    On a personal level, I do not agree with an abortion because I feel the way these people do; it is the killing of another human life. But on a larger scale, I don’t think that the government has the right to tell women they can’t have an abortion because there are so many women out there that cannot handle a child. Although I do think that adoption is a better option, that can be too hard on a mother or her child in the long run when the child wants to know his or her birth mother.

    I do have to say that there was one woman who made a good point. She said that making abortion illegal would keep uninformed people from having abortions unnecessarily. This brings up a good point about when abortion is ridiculous and that is when people have sex and don’t use protection, knowing very well that they could get pregnant, and then they use abortion to cover their stupid mistakes.

    Overall though, these people need to know what they’re talking about before they go out and publicly protest something. After this video, I watched “12-year-old speaks out on the issue of abortion” because it popped up as one of the videos related to the same topic and this video. If you want to see someone who puts these anti-abortion demonstrators to shame, you should watch this girl. She knows her shit.

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